Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC

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Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC

Mojca Miklavec-2
Hi,

I would like to announce the first online MacPorts meeting happening
two weeks from now, on April 21st at 13:00 - 14:00 UTC (if it takes
much longer than one hour, we are probably doing something wrong).

Many people wanted to join us at the face-to-face meeting last month,
but could not make it, or it was too expensive to travel or ...

This meeting gives you the opportunity to get involved into a lively
discussion about MacPorts future. Some potential topics could be:
- quick overview of the meeting in Slovenia
- plans for MacPorts release(s)
- website-related topics
but I would like to open the discussion now to suggest other more
important topics for this or one of the following meetings (if we end
up with too many proposals, we'll just organize another meeting to
keep this one reasonably short).

We should ideally have an agenda ready two days before the meeting, so
feel free to come up with proposals, specific questions etc.

Suggestions for the best platform to use are also welcome. IRC is
definitely one option, but some might prefer a combination of voice +
chat? I don't expect there would be a prohibitive number of people
participating for a voice conference.

See you all in two weeks,
    Mojca

PS: Meeting notes from Slovenia can be found here:
    https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Meetings/MacPortsMeeting2018#Sessions
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

Rainer Müller-4
On 2018-04-07 14:18, William H. Magill wrote:
> IRC is still quite popular in Europe, but is little used in the US.
IRC on our #macports channel is fine to ask questions for which you do
not want to write a lengthy email or to debug problems with quick
back-and-forth on what to check or try.

However, meetings on IRC are slow, as you have to wait for others to
type, you have no notifications whether others still have something to
say, etc.

For such a scheduled meeting, I would prefer audio chat as that would
make the communication more direct and faster.

> One alternative to IRC is “Discord” — it has the same “type text” capabilities as IRC, but as far as I’m concerned, it is MUCH easier to use.
> It also supports voice channels.
>
> And, yes, there is a Mac client - OSX and IOS - as well as access through the browser.
>
> https://discordapp.com
>
> It is pitched as “for gamers,” mainly because of its voice capabilities.

Discord looks fine to me. Apparently we would not even be the first open
source project to use it [1]. Apparently you can use it directly in a
browser without registration ("claiming the account").

The other well-known option would of course be Skype. However, with
Skype one person would have to collect interested developers first and
then invite them to a group call. With Discord it seems like you can
just create a room that everyone can join, which would be a lot simpler.

There is also Jitsi [2], an open source solution for video conferencing
via WebRTC in the browser. However, browser support seems to be limited,
especially with Safari.

Rainer

[1] https://discordapp.com/open-source
[2] https://jitsi.org/
G A
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

G A
Why not use WhatsApp 

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 10:42 Rainer Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2018-04-07 14:18, William H. Magill wrote:
> IRC is still quite popular in Europe, but is little used in the US.
IRC on our #macports channel is fine to ask questions for which you do
not want to write a lengthy email or to debug problems with quick
back-and-forth on what to check or try.

However, meetings on IRC are slow, as you have to wait for others to
type, you have no notifications whether others still have something to
say, etc.

For such a scheduled meeting, I would prefer audio chat as that would
make the communication more direct and faster.

> One alternative to IRC is “Discord” — it has the same “type text” capabilities as IRC, but as far as I’m concerned, it is MUCH easier to use.
> It also supports voice channels.
>
> And, yes, there is a Mac client - OSX and IOS - as well as access through the browser.
>
> https://discordapp.com
>
> It is pitched as “for gamers,” mainly because of its voice capabilities.

Discord looks fine to me. Apparently we would not even be the first open
source project to use it [1]. Apparently you can use it directly in a
browser without registration ("claiming the account").

The other well-known option would of course be Skype. However, with
Skype one person would have to collect interested developers first and
then invite them to a group call. With Discord it seems like you can
just create a room that everyone can join, which would be a lot simpler.

There is also Jitsi [2], an open source solution for video conferencing
via WebRTC in the browser. However, browser support seems to be limited,
especially with Safari.

Rainer

[1] https://discordapp.com/open-source
[2] https://jitsi.org/
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

Perry E. Metzger
In reply to this post by Rainer Müller-4
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 19:42:24 +0200 Rainer Müller <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> However, meetings on IRC are slow, as you have to wait for others to
> type, you have no notifications whether others still have something
> to say, etc.
>
> For such a scheduled meeting, I would prefer audio chat as that
> would make the communication more direct and faster.

Google Hangouts seems to work well for large groups. It also features
video if people want that.

> The other well-known option would of course be Skype. However, with
> Skype one person would have to collect interested developers first
> and then invite them to a group call. With Discord it seems like
> you can just create a room that everyone can join, which would be a
> lot simpler.

Similarly, with Google Hangouts, someone can just send out a link for
people to click on and join the chat. (They do need a Google ID I
think, but most people seem to have one of those these days.)

Perry
--
Perry E. Metzger [hidden email]
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

Mojca Miklavec-2
On 11 April 2018 at 17:47, Perry E. Metzger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 19:42:24 +0200 Rainer Müller <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> However, meetings on IRC are slow, as you have to wait for others to
>> type, you have no notifications whether others still have something
>> to say, etc.
>>
>> For such a scheduled meeting, I would prefer audio chat as that
>> would make the communication more direct and faster.
>
> Google Hangouts seems to work well for large groups. It also features
> video if people want that.
>
>> The other well-known option would of course be Skype. However, with
>> Skype one person would have to collect interested developers first
>> and then invite them to a group call. With Discord it seems like
>> you can just create a room that everyone can join, which would be a
>> lot simpler.
>
> Similarly, with Google Hangouts, someone can just send out a link for
> people to click on and join the chat. (They do need a Google ID I
> think, but most people seem to have one of those these days.)

If we find three volunteers (I volunteer, so only two more needed), we
could perhaps do a technology test run tomorrow at 13:00 UTC (that's
precisely 7 days earlier)
... (or at any other potentially more suitable hour depending on who
wants to participate).

We could then test:
- Hangouts
- Discord
- (potentially Skype, but it needs personal invitations etc.)
- any other video conferencing tool, in case there are better suggestions
and see which one fits best, but only if we get some proposal early enough.

We could have IRC as a backup for coordination in case of technical
problems etc.

Mojca
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

Rainer Müller-4
On 2018-04-13 13:34, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> If we find three volunteers (I volunteer, so only two more needed), we
> could perhaps do a technology test run tomorrow at 13:00 UTC (that's
> precisely 7 days earlier)
> ... (or at any other potentially more suitable hour depending on who
> wants to participate).
>
> We could then test:
> - Hangouts
> - Discord
> - (potentially Skype, but it needs personal invitations etc.)
> - any other video conferencing tool, in case there are better suggestions
> and see which one fits best, but only if we get some proposal early enough.
>
> We could have IRC as a backup for coordination in case of technical
> problems etc.

As nobody replied, I assume the test run did not happen...
Unfortunately, I could not make it either.

In any case, we are approaching the deadline to suggest topics.
I created a wiki page to track the agenda:

https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Meetings/2018-04-21

Rainer
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

Rainer Müller-4
On 2018-04-18 01:11, Rainer Müller wrote:

> On 2018-04-13 13:34, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> If we find three volunteers (I volunteer, so only two more needed), we
>> could perhaps do a technology test run tomorrow at 13:00 UTC (that's
>> precisely 7 days earlier)
>> ... (or at any other potentially more suitable hour depending on who
>> wants to participate).
>>
>> We could then test:
>> - Hangouts
>> - Discord
>> - (potentially Skype, but it needs personal invitations etc.)
>> - any other video conferencing tool, in case there are better suggestions
>> and see which one fits best, but only if we get some proposal early enough.
>>
>> We could have IRC as a backup for coordination in case of technical
>> problems etc.
>
> As nobody replied, I assume the test run did not happen...
> Unfortunately, I could not make it either.

We should figure out the technical side, so we can focus on the
discussion on Saturday.

Let's give it another try today at 17:00 UTC, meet on #macports IRC.
Who else would be willing to join the test run?

https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=MacPorts+Online+Meeting+Test+Run&iso=20180419T17

I know this time of day is not ideal for anyone not in Europe, but the
time is scarce until the meeting on Saturday.

Rainer
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

Craig Treleaven
> On Apr 19, 2018, at 5:24 AM, Rainer Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 2018-04-18 01:11, Rainer Müller wrote:
>> On 2018-04-13 13:34, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>> If we find three volunteers (I volunteer, so only two more needed), we
>>> could perhaps do a technology test run tomorrow at 13:00 UTC (that's
>>> precisely 7 days earlier)
>>> ... (or at any other potentially more suitable hour depending on who
>>> wants to participate).
>>>
>>> We could then test:
>>> - Hangouts
>>> - Discord
>>> - (potentially Skype, but it needs personal invitations etc.)
>>> - any other video conferencing tool, in case there are better suggestions
>>> and see which one fits best, but only if we get some proposal early enough.
>>>
>>> We could have IRC as a backup for coordination in case of technical
>>> problems etc.
>>
>> As nobody replied, I assume the test run did not happen...
>> Unfortunately, I could not make it either.
>
> We should figure out the technical side, so we can focus on the
> discussion on Saturday.
>
> Let's give it another try today at 17:00 UTC, meet on #macports IRC.
> Who else would be willing to join the test run?
>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=MacPorts+Online+Meeting+Test+Run&iso=20180419T17
>
> I know this time of day is not ideal for anyone not in Europe, but the
> time is scarce until the meeting on Saturday.

I will try to be there.

Craig
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC - suggestion

Rainer Müller-4
In reply to this post by Rainer Müller-4
On 2018-04-19 11:24, Rainer Müller wrote:

> On 2018-04-18 01:11, Rainer Müller wrote:
>> On 2018-04-13 13:34, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>> If we find three volunteers (I volunteer, so only two more needed), we
>>> could perhaps do a technology test run tomorrow at 13:00 UTC (that's
>>> precisely 7 days earlier)
>>> ... (or at any other potentially more suitable hour depending on who
>>> wants to participate).
>>>
>>> We could then test:
>>> - Hangouts
>>> - Discord
>>> - (potentially Skype, but it needs personal invitations etc.)
>>> - any other video conferencing tool, in case there are better suggestions
>>> and see which one fits best, but only if we get some proposal early enough.
>>>
>>> We could have IRC as a backup for coordination in case of technical
>>> problems etc.
>>
>> As nobody replied, I assume the test run did not happen...
>> Unfortunately, I could not make it either.
>
> We should figure out the technical side, so we can focus on the
> discussion on Saturday.
>
> Let's give it another try today at 17:00 UTC, meet on #macports IRC.
> Who else would be willing to join the test run?
>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=MacPorts+Online+Meeting+Test+Run&iso=20180419T17
>
> I know this time of day is not ideal for anyone not in Europe, but the
> time is scarce until the meeting on Saturday.

Thanks everyone who joined the test run!
We tested today:

* Google Hangouts (Video)
  + worked out of the box for everyone
  - requires Google account
  - has a limit of maximum 10 people

* Discord (Audio)
  + does not require an account
  + runs in the browser
  - some people could only hear a subset of participants

* Zoom (Video)
  - forces you to install a .pkg, which already installs an app to
    /Applications in the preflight script; we aborted the test

* Mumble (Audio)
   - requires a native app
   - very difficult to set up with certificate-based auth
   - default settings for voice activation did not work

* talky.io (Video)
   + does not require an account
   + runs in the browser
   - some people could only hear a subset of participants


As it was the only option that worked out of the box for everyone,
we decided to use Google Hangouts on Saturday.

We assume (and hope) that we will not be more than 10 people who want to
participate in the meeting. The link to join the call will be posted to
the corresponding wiki page for the meeting.

Rainer
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC

Rainer Müller-4
In reply to this post by Mojca Miklavec-2
On 2018-04-07 10:31, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> I would like to announce the first online MacPorts meeting happening
> two weeks from now, on April 21st at 13:00 - 14:00 UTC (if it takes
> much longer than one hour, we are probably doing something wrong).

The minutes of the meeting can be found on the corresponding wiki page:
https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Meetings/2018-04-21#Minutes

The next online meeting was set to be held on May 26th, 13:00 UTC.
An invitation with a call for topics will follow shortly before
the event.

Rainer
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Re: Online MacPorts Meeting on 21st April at 13:00 UTC

Mojca Miklavec-2
On 21 April 2018 at 17:34, Rainer Müller wrote:
> On 2018-04-07 10:31, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> I would like to announce the first online MacPorts meeting happening
>> two weeks from now, on April 21st at 13:00 - 14:00 UTC (if it takes
>> much longer than one hour, we are probably doing something wrong).
>
> The minutes of the meeting can be found on the corresponding wiki page:
> https://trac.macports.org/wiki/Meetings/2018-04-21#Minutes

Thank you very much for participating at the meeting and thanks a lot
to Clemens for taking notes.

> The next online meeting was set to be held on May 26th, 13:00 UTC.
> An invitation with a call for topics will follow shortly before
> the event.

I'll send a reminder about a week before the meeting.

Mojca